tony wrote:

> 1) I am placing my first LB in the retail store where I work. I was
> also considering having a bonus stamp, something like a PT where to
> get it somebody would have to find me. The problem is, I'm not there
> 24/7. Plus, I don't have a set schedule. So it's likely a seeker
> could find my LB but not get the bonus because I'm not there. Is this
> unfair?

Life isn't fair. Call it a personal traveller -- and leave some
instructions in the log book describing how the finder *might* be
able to score the personal traveller without leaving the store -- if
they're lucky. Don't mention it at all in the online clues.

-- Kirbert

>> So, is Nathan banned?
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>

Damn, foiled again!

AAHAH!!!!
All I can say is you must get that from the Momma.

Even though I lurk mostly I've watched this thread and you have to come to realize that it is a product of thia society. Most people believe that they have rights without responsibility. Just yesterday I went to Lowes and someone had unpacked their purchase and left ALL the packing on the ground in the parking lot. So it is everywhere.

As an afterthought I didn't pick it up either so I'm just as gulity.

The Sensitive One ;>)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Most people
> believe that they have rights without responsibility.

When the OP wrote that there was litter all around letterboxers, we
all reacted with disbelief that any of us could do such a thing. It
is difficult to imagine that any letterboxer would just scatter trash
around while stamping in -- but if you think about it, it's difficult
to imagine that ANYONE would just scatter trash around while doing
ANYTHING. I'm not sure we are justified that letterboxers are any
less prone to littering than the average person in the woods.

I still say that litterbugs should be stood against a wall and shot.
It's not about the seriousness of littering; it's about what
littering says about one's character. If you're the type of person
that would litter, you're the type of person that our society would
be better off without.

-- Kirbert

Does that include people who pitch their cigarette butts?

LOL, my GF and I were in Priest Park, Olympia WA last week looking
for "Alice" and trying to wait out a group of kids building
emergency shelters. When they had left, I found they had dug up
another LB ("Eagle") while grabbing building materials and rather
then re-hide it, it was just sitting out in plain view. So we
covered it back up but didn't open it as we hadn't done anything to
find it. I have to assume it was close to the orginal location. I
was leaving to go back to N. Virginia the next day so we couldn't
try to figure it out.

Ron

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Kirbert" wrote:
>
> > Most people
> > believe that they have rights without responsibility.
>
> When the OP wrote that there was litter all around letterboxers,
we
> all reacted with disbelief that any of us could do such a thing.
It
> is difficult to imagine that any letterboxer would just scatter
trash
> around while stamping in -- but if you think about it, it's
difficult
> to imagine that ANYONE would just scatter trash around while doing
> ANYTHING. I'm not sure we are justified that letterboxers are any
> less prone to littering than the average person in the woods.
>
> I still say that litterbugs should be stood against a wall and
shot.
> It's not about the seriousness of littering; it's about what
> littering says about one's character. If you're the type of
person
> that would litter, you're the type of person that our society
would
> be better off without.
>
> -- Kirbert
>

Did you get the box name or anything? You may want to email the placer, or post an email on that area's regional board to try to contact them.

If you can figure out who the planter is, you may want to let them know what happened and where you put it, just in case it's not in the right place.

Bali

Ron wrote:
So we
covered it back up but didn't open it as we hadn't done anything to
find it. I have to assume it was close to the orginal location. I
was leaving to go back to N. Virginia the next day so we couldn't
try to figure it out.

Ron


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joe Brown wrote:
>>> So, is Nathan banned?
>>>
>>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Damn, foiled again!
>
> AAHAH!!!!
> All I can say is you must get that from the Momma.
>

I think we all know where I get it from ;-)

>
> Even though I lurk mostly I've watched this thread and you have to come to realize that it is a product of thia society. Most people believe that they have rights without responsibility. Just yesterday I went to Lowes and someone had unpacked their purchase and left ALL the packing on the ground in the parking lot. So it is everywhere.
>
> As an afterthought I didn't pick it up either so I'm just as gulity.
>
> The Sensitive One ;>)
>

It all comes down to a matter of respect. Respect for those around us,
be it we know them or not. Indeed, I think people have for some reason
come to think that they have implied rights, that they can do what they
want and it does not matter how it affects others. That, of course, is
not the case.

--
Nathan Brown

AKA Cyclonic
Penncoasters.com

The Insensitivity rolls on...

I'm in shape; round is a shape.

Funny I thought this thread was started because someone was asking
for advise. How did it get so far off base.

Original message from Original OP of the thread:

1) I am placing my first LB in the retail store where I work. I was
also considering having a bonus stamp, something like a PT where to
get it somebody would have to find me. The problem is, I'm not there
24/7. Plus, I don't have a set schedule. So it's likely a seeker
could find my LB but not get the bonus because I'm not there. Is this
unfair?

2) This LB is a mystery box in MA. I'm not sure if my clues are too
obscure, so I'm posting them here to see if anyone can figure them
out. If you'd rather not respond publicly, you can email me at
anthony.pecchia@... The clues will not be posted on LB.org/AQ
till Sunday night, so I have time to change the cluse if I feel
necessary. Just looking for feedback, especially my LB partner had
trouble figuring them out initially.

Tony

CLUES

1-Washington
2-Jefferson
3-Lincoln
4-Hamilton
5-Jackson
6-Grant
7-?

140 & 495

pause & purchase
block & buy
halt & hunt for

red
yellow
green
blue
purple

the natural fluid, fluid content, or liquid part that can be extracted
from a plant or one of its parts, esp. of a fruit




--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Nathan Brown
wrote:
>
> Joe Brown wrote:
> >>> So, is Nathan banned?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Damn, foiled again!
> >
> > AAHAH!!!!
> > All I can say is you must get that from the Momma.
> >
>
> I think we all know where I get it from ;-)
>
> >
> > Even though I lurk mostly I've watched this thread and you have
to come to realize that it is a product of thia society. Most people
believe that they have rights without responsibility. Just yesterday
I went to Lowes and someone had unpacked their purchase and left ALL
the packing on the ground in the parking lot. So it is everywhere.
> >
> > As an afterthought I didn't pick it up either so I'm just as
gulity.
> >
> > The Sensitive One ;>)
> >
>
> It all comes down to a matter of respect. Respect for those around
us,
> be it we know them or not. Indeed, I think people have for some
reason
> come to think that they have implied rights, that they can do what
they
> want and it does not matter how it affects others. That, of
course, is
> not the case.
>
> --
> Nathan Brown
>
> AKA Cyclonic
> Penncoasters.com
>
> The Insensitivity rolls on...
>
> I'm in shape; round is a shape.
>

The problem is that a couple of threads have gotten tangled up here.
This particular thread did start as a request for advice (two-fold)
from Tony.

I believe somehow items from last week referring to another topic
have gotten scrambled in here somehow.

Anyhoo, Kirbert gave Tony an excellent reply to his first question.
I can add nothing and, not being familiar with boxing in MA, I will
have to leave any answer to the second question to others.

Knit Wit


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Judie D"
wrote:
>
> Funny I thought this thread was started because someone was asking
> for advise. How did it get so far off base.
>
> Original message from Original OP of the thread:
>
> 1) I am placing my first LB in the retail store where I work.
> [snip]
> 2) This LB is a mystery box in MA.
> [snip]
> Tony
>

Ron wrote:

> Does that include people who pitch their cigarette butts?

Yes. Do they think those cigarette butts are just going to get up
and walk to the trash can?

> LOL, my GF and I were in Priest Park, Olympia WA last week looking for
> "Alice" and trying to wait out a group of kids building emergency
> shelters. When they had left, I found they had dug up another LB
> ("Eagle") while grabbing building materials and rather then re-hide
> it, it was just sitting out in plain view. So we covered it back up
> but didn't open it as we hadn't done anything to find it.

What??!!?? Of course you had done something to find it. You had
FOUND it. Time to stamp in and write this story in the log book.
And then send a message to the owner describing where you put it.

-- Kirbert

> For one thing, if he makes the corrections, then the next
> guy will have an easier time finding it than I did.

This implies a competitive vibe (otherwise, why would it matter
that it is of a different level of difficulty for others?). Not
that I'm passing judgement on competitive vibes, or the lack
thereof, in this pastime. Its just that I've been away so long,
and so out of touch. Is there a competitive vibe? (What it actually
implies is that clues need to be "fair" across a spectrum of readers;
this, of course, isn't necessary unless there is competition, but
I acknowledge the anthropological fact that people have a sense of
"fairness" even in the absence of explicit or implicit competition,
for reasons that are beyond the scope of my post).

> What??!!?? Of course you had done something to find it. You had
> FOUND it.

Now, here's another question. If you go to place a box, you know,
in that beautiful distinct old growth tree with that perfect nook
that may or may not look like an Orycteropus afer, and lo and behold,
another box is there. We've all seen this (at least those of us
who have been doing this forever). So, do you count this? Do you
go log this on some web site somewhere? Just curious. Ties into
the competition question.

These questions and many others will not be answered on the next
episode of Soap (but isn't modern life fantastic -- you can get all
the episodes of Soap at Netflix), but they seem interesting nonetheless.
(Not to hijack the thread any further -- a true Beldin's thread being
one (as recently pointed out by another poster) that looks nothing like
the original question -- I think that is a good thing -- it shows a
vibrant and fun community -- we'll be there when people are putting
"I don't mean to start a flame war" at the beginning of their posts).

Cheers
Randy

'Tis the joy of conversation....

Judie D wrote: Funny I thought this thread was started because someone was asking
for advise. How did it get so far off base.



---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tangential transcendentalism...or something like that.

Man, I've been off this board for too long...some invigorating,
enlightening, although lots of the usual sort of discussion here. Glad
I popped in.

dewberry

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Coe wrote:
>
> 'Tis the joy of conversation....
>
> Judie D wrote: Funny I thought this thread was
started because someone was asking
> for advise. How did it get so far off base.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Randy Hall wrote:

> > For one thing, if he makes the corrections, then the next
> > guy will have an easier time finding it than I did.
>
> This implies a competitive vibe

OK, I can see that. It wasn't really my intention to imply such,
though. To my way of thinking, the collection of sig stamp images in
a letterbox log book represents a club of sorts, the select few
individuals who have experienced this letterbox and all that it
entails: the location, the stamp, the challenge of the hunt. But if
some people manage to figure out a particularly challenging set of
clues (albeit challenging only because the placer screwed them all up
when listing the box) and then the rest found it with no challenge at
all because the clues had been made clearer, they don't really belong
to the same club, do they?

Did that make any sense? I suppose I could give examples. Let's say
you found a mystery box in which the puzzle involved some really
serious research to solve. In three years, only you and a couple of
other people found it. Then the owner, seeing as how very few people
had found his box, changes the clue listing to simply tell people
where to go to find it. Then a dozen find it in the next year. How
would you feel about it? Would you feel a kinship with those later
finders?

> > What??!!?? Of course you had done something to find it. You had
> > FOUND it.
>
> Now, here's another question. If you go to place a box, you know, in
> that beautiful distinct old growth tree with that perfect nook that
> may or may not look like an Orycteropus afer, and lo and behold,
> another box is there. We've all seen this (at least those of us who
> have been doing this forever). So, do you count this? Do you go log
> this on some web site somewhere? Just curious. Ties into the
> competition question.

Of course I log it! I *found* it! I do clarify in the log book,
though, that it was an accidental find.

Think about the alternative. Let's say you don't log it, then later
doing a search you run across the clues for that box. Do you run
back out there and stamp in? You already know where the box is, it's
not as though it's a challenge to find. Or do you consider this box
"ruined", it's forever off your list of possible hunts?

> These questions and many others will not be answered on the next
> episode of Soap (but isn't modern life fantastic -- you can get all
> the episodes of Soap at Netflix)

Ye gads, that's the best reason I've heard yet for signing up for
Netflix. I loved that show. When Billy Crystal hid that hand puppet
in the freezer and his brother made do with a grapefruit, I thought I
was gonna bust a gut.

-- Kirbert

> they don't really belong to the same club, do they?

Not really. But the existence of the club is competition, I'd
offer anyway. Not really my point to argue so about it, just
an observation. We all know letterboxing is cliquish (in
varying degrees depending on varying factors).

As to being fair, its never gonna be fair. We talk about
the terrain changes, season changes and the like; we talk
less about how those who have found the box spill the beans
to those who have not, etc., all of this being unfair. So,
suggesting to the writer how to clean up their clue doesn't
really make things that much more unfair, IMHO, so back to the
original point. I'm not big on communication between the writer
and the seeker except via the published clue (the information leaks
thru other channels really ruin the whole thing for me, to be
honest), but if you are going to, I wouldn't let fears of unfairness
be the barrier. Of course, I can see the fear of exclusivity --
slightly different, and may be more to the point that fears of
unfairness, in which case I see your point.

> Think about the alternative. Let's say you don't log it, then later
> doing a search you run across the clues for that box. Do you run
> back out there and stamp in? You already know where the box is, it's
> not as though it's a challenge to find.

I wouldn't, that would seem silly. I don't log things, and have a
horrible memory, tho, so with my luck I'd find it again and not even
realise it under the above scenerio :) I can't even remember where
I put my own boxes, for crissakes, and certainly can't remember how
to solve the clues :-)

> Ye gads, that's the best reason I've heard yet for signing up for
> Netflix. I loved that show. When Billy Crystal hid that hand puppet
> in the freezer and his brother made do with a grapefruit, I thought I
> was gonna bust a gut.

Yes, that scene is a classic. Up there with the Stonehenge scene from
Spinal Tap.

Cheers
Randy

Did you hear that scream in my head upon reading this? You can't
remember where you put your boxes and somehow I'm supposed to find
them? LOL

I am curious, having found a few of your boxes (*never* on the first
try, though, save Witness) if you were to follow your own clues to
these 'forgotten' boxes, would you find them then?

PS. I'm secretly hoping you'll say you do have some difficulty, but I
doubt it



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:
> I wouldn't, that would seem silly. I don't log things, and have a
> horrible memory, tho, so with my luck I'd find it again and not even
> realise it under the above scenerio :) I can't even remember where
> I put my own boxes, for crissakes, and certainly can't remember how
> to solve the clues :-)

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:

> Not really. But the existence of the club is competition, I'd>
> I wouldn't, that would seem silly. I don't log things, and have a
> horrible memory, tho, so with my luck I'd find it again and not even
> realise it under the above scenerio :) I can't even remember where
> I put my own boxes, for crissakes, and certainly can't remember how
> to solve the clues :-)
>
Without this list and the logging function on the clue sites we would have no idea what
others were doing. I boxed for quite awhile before I found this list and before the logging
function. I don't log my finds most of the time. Sometimes I don't even stamp into my log
if I find a commercial stamp. I'm also known for not being able to find my own boxes.
Boxing is many things to many people. It started out for me as something fun to do with
my family. Now? It changes from day to day, sometimes it's a social thing with people I
have grown to know and love, sometimes it's a spiritual connection with another artist,
sometimes it's a mental and physical challenge.
Over the years I've seen people come and go, they light up the list for awhile with new and
bright ideas and then they move on to the next big thing, and others stay for the long haul
and the growing pains.

> I am curious, having found a few of your boxes (*never* on the first
> try, though, save Witness) if you were to follow your own clues to
> these 'forgotten' boxes, would you find them then?

Probably not if I followed them. But there are a few I can't
visualize the space sitting here at home. There are a couple
that I just have no idea exactly where they are without the clues.
I know where they are to about 20 feet, but its that last part
I find the least interesting, and thus have the least memory of,
and would have to go out with the clues like everyone else.

Fortunately I keep pretty good notes, but some of these things
are pushing 10 years old soon; I imagine at 20 or 30 years, some
of the details will fade even more. And some are just bad, so
it is probably just as well that they fade from my mind.

Cheers
Randy

So how are the containers and stamps holding up after almost 10 years in the wild? Are they the originals, or did you have to replace them after a few years?

Lone R

Randy Hall wrote:
Fortunately I keep pretty good notes, but some of these things
are pushing 10 years old soon; I imagine at 20 or 30 years, some
of the details will fade even more. And some are just bad, so
it is probably just as well that they fade from my mind.

Cheers
Randy






---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The oldest Mapsurfer we found was from '99, but that was in '05,
after only 6 yrs of aging. Like a fine wine.

LB

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "mstoeff61" wrote:
>
> From experience, they hold up just fine.
>
> PP
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, R wrote:
> >
> > So how are the containers and stamps holding up after almost 10
> years in the wild? Are they the originals, or did you have to
replace
> them after a few years?
> >
> > Lone R
> >
> > Randy Hall wrote:
> > Fortunately I keep pretty good notes, but some of these things
> > are pushing 10 years old soon; I imagine at 20 or 30 years, some
> > of the details will fade even more. And some are just bad, so
> > it is probably just as well that they fade from my mind.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Randy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk
> email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

> So how are the containers and stamps holding up after almost 10 years in the wild?
> Are they the originals, or did you have to replace them after a few
years?

Its all originals, in varying states of repair. Once they go, they go,
I tend not to replace them, tho sometimes others do.

The oldest one went missing -- I did replace that one, then it went
missing again I think, so I said, oh well. It wasn't in a very secure
spot, but its location was dictated by other constraints. That's the
way it goes.

I'll volunteer for your firing squad! It is a pet peeve of mine when I see people throw trash out of their cars!!! GRRRRR! or see kitchen trash bags along the highway because weekenders were too darned lazy to be inconvenienced to take it ALL the way home! I just really dislike seeing the evidence of the 'entitled' group! Like it's everyone else's job to clean up after them!!! :)
Kirbert wrote: > Most people
> believe that they have rights without responsibility.

When the OP wrote that there was litter all around letterboxers, we
all reacted with disbelief that any of us could do such a thing. It
is difficult to imagine that any letterboxer would just scatter trash
around while stamping in -- but if you think about it, it's difficult
to imagine that ANYONE would just scatter trash around while doing
ANYTHING. I'm not sure we are justified that letterboxers are any
less prone to littering than the average person in the woods.

I still say that litterbugs should be stood against a wall and shot.
It's not about the seriousness of littering; it's about what
littering says about one's character. If you're the type of person
that would litter, you're the type of person that our society would
be better off without.

-- Kirbert





---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ohmigawd, Kirbert, that is my single favorite moment of Soap! And I
used to watch it every night in syndication in college before I went
to bed.

With the brother grabbing anything to make *something* talk and then
using the grapefruit was pure comic genius, in a show that was genius
to start with.

I don't have Netflix but I have the same thing thru Blockbuster. Now
I have to go put Soap on my queue.

KuKu

you can get all
> > the episodes of Soap at Netflix)
>
> Ye gads, that's the best reason I've heard yet for signing up for
> Netflix. I loved that show. When Billy Crystal hid that hand
puppet
> in the freezer and his brother made do with a grapefruit, I thought
I
> was gonna bust a gut.
>
> -- Kirbert
>